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Thread: Who is FirstBorn and What does FirstBorn mean in Colossians?

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    Who is FirstBorn and What does FirstBorn mean in Colossians?

    Colossians 1:15
    [ The Supremacy of the Son of God ] The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

    Who is FirstBorn and What does FirstBorn mean in Colossians?
    And when the 3rd Temple is built, you will know armageddon is near. For it is written the man of lawlessness will be revealed and
    He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple,
    proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

    “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—
    Matthew 24:15

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    the same questions that should be ask when Revelation states:

    Rev 1:4John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

    the firstborn of the dead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahalkita View Post
    the same questions that should be ask when Revelation states:

    Rev 1:4John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

    the firstborn of the dead?
    you are twisting the facts.

    CREATION is not only confined to HUMANS who died, it includes the stars, moon, planets, universe and all of other God's Creation including angels etc,

    why are you talking about FIRSTBORN of the DEAD, the planets, land, water etc, and heavenly beings like angels are not classifiable as DEAD.
    And when the 3rd Temple is built, you will know armageddon is near. For it is written the man of lawlessness will be revealed and
    He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple,
    proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

    “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—
    Matthew 24:15

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    I am not twisting anything, you should know the usage of word (e.g. firstborn) before associating it to other verse. Context is important!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahalkita View Post
    I am not twisting anything, you should know the usage of word (e.g. firstborn) before associating it to other verse. Context is important!
    parehas ba ang FIRST BORN over all creation at FIRTBORN from the Dead?

    abir nga. kailan nagkaparehas iyan?

    bakit mo ba ipinasok iyang FIRSTBORN from the Dead gayong, FIRSTBORN over all creation naman ang paksa
    And when the 3rd Temple is built, you will know armageddon is near. For it is written the man of lawlessness will be revealed and
    He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple,
    proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

    “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—
    Matthew 24:15

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    And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. (Colossians 1:15)

    The heretics viewed Jesus as one among a series of lesser spirits descending in sequential inferiority from God. Paul refutes that with two powerful descriptions of who Jesus really is. First, Paul describes Him as the image of the invisible God. Eikon (image) means “image” or “likeness.” From it we get our English word icon, referring to a statue. It is used in Matthew 22:20 of Caesar’s portrait on a coin, and in Revelation 13:14 of the statue of Antichrist.

    Paul further describes Jesus as the first-born of all creation. From the Arians of the early church to the Jehovah’s Witnesses of our own day, those who would deny our Lord’s deity have sought support from this phrase. They argue that it speaks of Christ as a created being, and hence He could not be the eternal God. Such an interpretation completely misunderstands the sense of prototokos (first-born) and ignores the context.

    Although prototokos can mean first-born chronologically (Luke 2:7), it refers primarily to position, or rank. In both Greek and Jewish culture, the first-born was the son who had the right of inheritance. He was not necessarily the first one born. Although Esau was born first chronologically, it was Jacob who was the “first-born” and received the inheritance. Jesus is the One with the right to the inheritance of all creation (cf. Heb. 1:2; Rev. 5:1–7, 13).

    Israel was called God’s first-born in Exodus 4:22 and Jeremiah 31:9. Though not the first people born, they held first place in God’s sight among all the nations. In Psalm 89:27, God says of the Messiah, “I also shall make him My first-born,” then defines what He means—“the highest of the kings of the earth.” In Revelation 1:5, Jesus is called “the first-born of the dead,” even though He was not the first person to be resurrected chronologically. Of all ever raised, He is the preeminent One. Romans 8:29 refers to Him as the first-born in relation to the church. In all the above cases, first-born clearly means highest in rank, not first created.

    There are many other reasons for rejecting the idea that the use of first-born makes Jesus a created being. Such an interpretation cannot be harmonized with the description of Jesus as monogenes (“only begotten,” or “unique”) in John 1:18. We might well ask with the early church Father Theodoret how, if Christ was only begotten, could He be first-begotten? And how, if He were first-begotten, could He be only begotten? How could He be the first of many in His class, and at the same time the only member of His class? Yet such confusion is inevitable if we assign the meaning “first created” to “first-born.” Further, when the prototokos is one of the class referred to, the class is plural (cf. Col. 1:18; Rom. 8:29). Yet, creation is singular. Finally, if Paul meant to convey that Christ was the first created being, why did he not use the Greek word protoktistos, which means “first created?”

    Such an interpretation of prototokos is also foreign to the context—both the general context of the epistle and the specific context of the passage. If Paul were here teaching that Christ is a created being, he would be agreeing with the central point of the Colossian errorists. They taught that Christ was a created being, the most prominent of the emanations from God. That would run counter to his purpose in writing Colossians, which was to refute the false teachers at Colossae.

    Interpreting prototokos to mean that Christ is a created being is also out of harmony with the immediate context. Paul has just finished describing Christ as the perfect and complete image of God. In the next verse, he refers to Christ as the creator of everything that exists. How then could Christ Himself be a created being? Further, verse 17 states, “He is before all things.” Christ existed before anything else was created (cf. Micah 5:2). And only God existed before the creation.

    Far from being one of a series of emanations descending from God, Jesus is the perfect image of God. He is the preeminent inheritor over all creation (The genitive ktiseos is better translated “over” than “of”). He both existed before the creation and is exalted in rank above it. Those truths define who Jesus is in relation to God. They also devastate the false teachers’ position. But Paul is not finished—his next point undermines another false teaching of the Colossian errorists.
    I post the entire article for the readers to know, some explanation of the usage of Firstborn on Col 1.

    source Here

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahalkita View Post
    I post the entire article for the readers to know, some explanation of the usage of Firstborn on Col 1.

    source Here
    Christ is not created he is procreated.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/begotten

    The definition of BEGOTTEN is natural or procreated child according to the free dictionary.

    Adj. 1. begotten - (of offspring) generated by procreation; "naturally begotten child"
    biological - of parents and children; related by blood; "biological child"

    I am holding that position.
    Last edited by the3rdtemple; 03-10-2013 at 12:09 PM.
    And when the 3rd Temple is built, you will know armageddon is near. For it is written the man of lawlessness will be revealed and
    He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple,
    proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

    “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—
    Matthew 24:15

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    heb 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahalkita View Post
    heb 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    Define what is begotten to you.
    And when the 3rd Temple is built, you will know armageddon is near. For it is written the man of lawlessness will be revealed and
    He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple,
    proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

    “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—
    Matthew 24:15

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    gennaó: to beget, to bring forth
    Original Word: γεννάω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: gennaó
    Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-nah'-o)
    Short Definition: I beget, bring forth, give birth to
    Definition: I beget (of the male), (of the female) I bring forth, give birth to.


    1080 gennáō – properly, beget (procreate a descendant), produce offspring; (passive) be born, "begotten."



    Word Origin
    from genna (descent, birth)
    Definition
    to beget, to bring forth
    NASB Translation
    bear (1), bearing children (1), became the father of (4), became...father (1), begotten (4), bore (1), born (41), Child (1), conceived (1), father (37), Father (1), gave (1), gives birth (1), produce (1).

    http://biblesuite.com/greek/1080.htm

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